Racism without Racists: giving voice to injustice in a “color blind” society

Let me start with the preface, I am white–not color blind.

I believe that our society is as far from colorblindness as it has ever been. The fear of being seen as Racist has overpowered the fear of racism itself, discreetly protecting our racism with “color blind” laws and law enforcement. By using terms like “color blindness” we are protecting institutionalized racism from much needed reform–not making racism disappear.

The biggest question for me, when faced with statistics that show obvious racial bias, is: why? Who benefits from a racial caste system, and what would inspire anyone to support one? I imagined a bunch of powerful white men sitting around a table, smoking cigars, talking about how they could “keep the black man down,” as it happened when racial discrimination was formed [7] and absolutely rejected the possibility that such a club could exist today. No one is that racist anymore (I told myself). But the answer is much more dangerous than that. While I now have no doubt that people exist who see racial discrimination and benefit from it, the core of the problem is even more malignant. The problem does not simply belong to a select few at the top. Racism belongs to all of us.

In a country that largely rejects open racial bias and considers racism a societal flaw and injustice, I often hear the claim: “But I/he/she/they/it is/am not a racist, so how can you say __________ is racism?” The obliteration and extinction of The Racist, will not end racism. One does not have to have intentional bias in order for racism to exist, nor for us to act with significant racial consequences. Studies presenting video game players with white and black men, some armed and some not, resulted in participants being more likely to mistake a black target as armed and a white target as unarmed. These results were the same for both white and black participants [1] [2]. Regardless of whether participants explicitly displayed racism, their implicit or internalized bias affected their external actions. In this case, to the point where innocent, unarmed black men would have been shot and armed white men would have held the participant at gunpoint. That is racism without racists, with fatal consequences.

As a result of shining light on the ugliness of racism, we have created an automatic defensive response that protects anyone from ever objectively or actively addressing persisting racism in our society.

If you have ever questioned whether or not an idea, institution, phrase, question, or relationship was racist, you will understand what I mean. Any person involved, regardless of how removed from the inquiry they are, will immediately cry in offense, “that’s not racist!” and either argue that the act is justified by other causes [10] or change the subject by way of their anger and frustration. As a result, our internalized fears of being considered racist has overpowered the fight to end racism. More recently, arguments that whites should not be made to feel guilty for past injustices has distanced racism from our present society and allows whites a simple defense—“I didn’t do it, so why am I to blame?”

That’s not to say that racism is a white issue. Just as often, minorities have deeply rooted biases about other minorities as well as whites. The difference, of course, is that political, economic, and judicial power is still largely in the hands of whites, giving whites more responsibility to check their internalized bias.

This is not about blame. It is bigger than blame. Institutionalized racism is about actions unconsciously informed by racially charged images. No one cares if you do or do not, should or should not, feel guilty. No one is saying that slavery or segregation were your fault. I am saying that in order to address a modern problem, causing the suffering and endangerment of a large group of people based on their race, we need to start protecting our reputations second and first and foremost protect our fellow citizens from injustice.

I was taught, according to society’s standards, that racism is wrong and that all people, regardless of their race are equal. I believe that and have always believed that. And yet, it was not uncommon to hear phrases like, “So there are black kids in your class?” or “The neighborhood is mostly black but we get along okay.” Or to hear the preface to a story, “I’m not racist but—”. I heard this kind of speech about race from people I admired, people who were educated, and people who openly decried racism, denied being racist at any accusation, and praised civil rights icons. If questions about institutionalized racism, or their own use of racially biased language, should arise–they would no doubt exclaim “But I’m not racist!” and be genuinely offended by the simple idea that they might possess racial bias.  Those exclamations always end the conversation or deteriorate the dialogue into a fight.

In addition to those intimate experiences, the media constantly conveys two contradictory messages. First, that racism is unjust and shameful. Second, that minorities, particularly blacks, are violent criminals, goofy and uneducated, and that their lives are only side stories relevant in their relationship to more important white issues. Crime is almost solely depicted as violent and almost always beside the image of a black man. Those messages were not unique to me or the media I consumed [3] [4] [9]. Resulting from these messages, I have racial bias. Do I believe that I am a racist? No. But I accept that internalized ideas of race do affect my behavior, however unconsciously, and that my desire to not be labeled a racist is not more important than having a conversation about eliminating racial bias from both private and federal institutions.

People like me, who grew up with these messages (or in worse post-segregation times like the 70’s and 80’s), run this country. Class is largely divided by race, with the most powerful wealthy being almost solely white men, and a significant portion of the impoverished made up of minorities [12]. The powerful elite are prosecutors, judges, legislators, and police officers and they are mostly white. While positions of complete disenfranchisement, such as the abject poor, prisoners, and parolees, are overwhelmingly occupied by minorities. Internalized bias informed by the media’s association between dark skin and criminality (or, in the case of The Racist–overt bias) give far too many people the explanation that the high conviction rate of racial minorities, is driven by character flaws, rather than institutionalized racism.

Despite evidence that blacks and whites commit crimes at the same rate, blacks face much harsher consequences at every single stage of our criminal justice system. Blacks are more often stopped and frisked, due to blind-eye discretion awarded to law enforcement [5], blacks are more often charged with additional crimes, due to the power awarded to prosecutors, and are more often convicted and harshly sentenced for the same reason. One study showed that blacks convicted of killing white victims were eleven times more likely to receive the death penalty than whites who killed black victims. Further, blacks are more than six times as likely as whites to be sentenced to prison for identical crimes, with prosecutors describing blacks’ crimes as motivated by “internal personality flaws such as disrespect,” and whites’ crimes justified by “external conditions and circumstances” [6] [11].

Racially biased institutions come from two sources: internalized racism (discussed above) and political convenience.

When political power and influence is in the hands of a mostly-white, mostly-affluent legislature and that same legislature is awarded significant power over the judicial branch, the risks of policing, enacting legislation, and punishing people living in certain places becomes very high. As a matter of convenience, the police have an enormous incentive to detain people who have no power over them, hold no risk of repercussions, and can pass easily and unnoticed through the system. If the police were to invade the suburbs in search of weapons or drugs, which they are equally likely to find there as in the inner-cities, the likelihood that they would step on a politician’s toes, or encounter a wealthy lawyer, or be met with someone aware of their rights would be vastly higher [6]. Further, there are far fewer consequences in passing regulation to limit the services available to groups not highly represented in congress, than it is to regulate the wealthy elite.

As a result, we have a system that rewards the prosecution and sacrifice of low-income minorities, and progresses the interests of high-income whites—without the presence of the Racist, which would have previously fed civil rights activists with someone to blame.

As it stands, the Supreme Court has protected these interests by ruling against arguments of racial bias. Just as we shout “I’m not racist!” and end a discussion, the Supreme Court has made several decisions—McCleskey v. Kemp, Armstrong V. United States—that require defendants to present evidence that intentional bias exists in their particular case by the prosecution, or they cannot make any claim that racism affected their conviction. This is a clear catch-22. The defendant is required to have proof that the person prosecuting them—who has every incentive not to provide that proof—acted with intent motivated by racial bias. Studies revealing clear racial bias in a particular state, district, or court have been rejected as evidence because the statistics were not relevant to the defendants’ particular case. So while no discretion in claims of racial bias are awarded to defendants (the victim), complete discretion is awarded to the prosecutors and law enforcement agents (the perpetrators of a racist system, however unintentional their actions may be) [6] [8]. In large part, these decisions are defended by the belief that if a precedent for racial bias arguments is set, the entire criminal justice system will be called into question and we will see countless appeals on that basis. My counter-argument: as it should be.

If enough studies exist (and they do) to prove that unintentional racial bias has infected our criminal justice system, resulting in catastrophic consequences for low-income and minority communities, then we should not just throw up our hands and say “it’s too much work to address that problem,” by instead declaring “I’m not racist and you can’t prove it!”

Once convicted, the quality of life and opportunity in communities with large populations of minorities significantly decreases. With a population of men far more likely to be convicted and receive a lengthy sentence, you create a neighborhood of one-income families, and one-parent households. As a result, you create a set of circumstances that is cyclical: the population is seen as criminal and is treated as such, the children do not have the benefits of two parents and two incomes, the city does not have the resources of a high-income community, each generation then returns to the happenstance of their fathers and mothers, while everyone with the power to change it cries—“But I’m not racist!” and “It’s their own fault!”

When fear of the Racist label, racialized media coverage, and convenience mentalities are coupled with the prevalent idea that all economic, social, and criminal circumstances are created by lack of self-discipline [10], we find ourselves in a country that perpetuates the poverty of minorities with criminalization. Racism without racists.

In order to end this cycle we need to do a few things, starting with whites setting aside our pride and discussing our own flaws. We need to end mandatory minimum sentences for drug charges based on a precedent of proportionality in relation to “cruel and unusual punishment.” We need to put a stop to leniency of discretion for law enforcement by requiring substantiated proof of reasonable suspicion for a search or arrest, rather than allowing officers to use vague charges to justify a search. We need to end leniency of discretion for prosecutors by disallowing trumped up charges and plea bargains based on mandatory minimums. We should require law enforcement to inform suspects of their rights to deny a search. We must create avenues to populate the legislative branch with a representative population, regardless of access to campaign funding. We should require law enforcement agencies to spend equal time and money investigating and patrolling all neighborhoods, regardless of influence or income.

At your next opportunity to cut a conversation short with the declaration, “I’m not racist!” or preface a statement with, “I’m not racist but,” I implore you to allow the conversation to go beyond your comfort. To explore your own internalized racism. To allow yourself to question whether tangible evidence is required for racism to be present.

Finally, leave room to consider that your offense is not more important than our collective progression toward an equal society. If you can rid yourself of a fear of blame, you and I can work together to put solutions into place, rather than bury them.

Sources:

The photographs used as a featured image for this post are by Ashley Block in a collection titled “Jailed Humanity,” that was featured at Detroit’s 555 Gallery.

1. Correll, Joshua, Bernadette Park, Charles M. Judd, and Bernd Wittenbrink. “The Police Officer’s Dilemma: Using Ethnicity to Disambiguate Potentially Threatening Individuals.” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 83.6 (2002): 1314-329. Print.

2. Payne, Keith. “Prejudice and Perception: The Role of Automatic and Controlled Processes in Misperceiving a Weapon,” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. 81 (2001): 181.

3. Gilliam, Franklin D and Shanto Iyengar, “Prime Suspects: The Influence of Local Television News on the Viewing Public,” American Journal of Political Science 44 (2000): 560-73.

4. Muhammad, Kahlil Gibran. The Condemnation of Blackness: Race, Crime, and the Making of Modern Urban America. First Harvard Press. 2011. Print.

5. “Stop-and-Frisk DataAmerican Civil Liberties Union of New York State. New York Civil Liberties Union, 2012. Web. 28 July 2013. <http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data&gt;.

6. Alexander, Michelle. The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. New York, NY: New, 2012. Print.

7. Rothenberg, Paula S. “The Social Construction of Difference.” Race, Class, and Gender in the United States: An Integrated Study. New York: Worth, 2010. N. pag. Print.

8. Paulsen, Michael Stokes. The Constitution of the United States. New York: Foundation Thomson/West, 2010. 1363-83. 1399-1473. 1237-97. Print.

9. Larson, Stephanie Greco. Media and Minorities: The Politics of Race in News and Entertainment. Lanham: Rowman & Littlefield, 2006. Print.

10. Lakoff, George. “The Culture Wars: From Affirmative Action to the Arts.” Moral Politics: How Liberals and Conservatives Think. Chicago: University of Chicago, 2002. Print.

11. Bridges, George and Sara Steen, “Racial Disparities in Official Assessments of Juvenile Offenders: attributional stereotypes as mediating mechanisms,” American Sociological Review 63, no. 4 (1998): 554-70.

12. King, Desmond. “On Race, the Silence Is Bipartisan.” The New York Times. N.p., 2 Sept. 2011. Web. 28 July 2013.

35 thoughts on “Racism without Racists: giving voice to injustice in a “color blind” society

  1. I can speak for myself and state that I have racial bias, yet when I do I end up being discredited for valid statements because i admitted that I was a racist. The core of racism is fear and things get very irrational when dealing with that base emotion. The facts brought up demonstrate the problem, yet most do not want to let go of their fear.

    1. If your valid statements can be reinforced with reliable facts, they cannot be discredited by accusations of racism–name calling is not the same discrediting. I urge you to continue the discussion, both in the hope of breaking down your bias and that of others. Best of luck.

      1. How do you overcome fear? How do you continue the discussion when folks just don’t want to talk about it anymore? Why don’t they want to talk about it anymore? I have been in the middle of this for a good while and it boils down to fear and pride on both sides of the issue. Who wants to admit that they are afraid? When I admit my fear I admit that I am weak and the others no longer respect me. I admit I am a racist then nobody respects me. I make these statements to show what is going on in other’s minds. I can speak for myself and when I have brought up the facts it is shut down because a discussion about racism, sexism or any other problem based on fear means that changes are going to have to happen and change is a painful process. There has been lots of damage done on both sides of the issue and the solutions are going to be painful for both sides of the issue. Yet not as painful as most fear.

      2. First, I commend you for talking about it despite your own fear and the difficult process it can be. My advice: memorize three important phrases– “I apologize if I offended you, how can I approach this differently in the future?” and “Do you have advice on how to make this a more respectful debate?” and “I’d like to understand your side, and I’m willing to listen.” Approaching a debate with the intent to understand the other person’s position, rather than defend your own, is paramount to progressing this kind of dialogue. We spend so much time trying to defend ourselves (myself included!) that we cloud the conversation with emotionally driven information rather than actually trying to see the other person’s point. If we cannot understand where the other person is coming from, even if it is clouded by misinformation, we will have no way of forming a powerful, influential argument and no one will listen to us because we have not listened to them. In the use of facts and statistics, I often try to say, “I hear what you’re saying– from what I’ve read these are the facts that most concern me:” and then allow them to answer. If their answer involves more “I think” or “they did/said” statements than facts, then I try to assuage their fears by saying, “I hear what your experience has been, but it doesn’t seem to be representative of the country. I’m not targeting you in particular, I’m just trying to see another side.”

  2. Inspiration came to mind. So, I am leaving a quick reply here. Why not talk about sexism, which is way easier to back with hard evidence and statistics? Are you afraid of being labeled as a feminist, the favorite one used by those who hate women talking about sexism? I am an Asian who doesn’t like to talk about racism against us, so I understand why women don’t like to talk about sexism. It’s a bit different, but as always, making the big changes is more important.

    1. If you write a blog post about Ducks, I will remember to ask why you didn’t write about Eagles instead. If a person writes about Apples, I’ll inquire as to why they didn’t write about Oranges.
      I provided numerous sources that are simply the tip of the iceberg in regard to hard evidence that institutionalized racism exists and supported my arguments with those facts and sources. What evidence do you have that sexism is “way easier” to back with evidence? I am clearly not “afraid of being labeled a feminist,” as my bio on this very site clearly states that I am a feminist. I do like to talk about sexism and often do–but it is irrelevant to this piece. Finally, by stating that “making the big changes is more important,” are you suggesting that addressing sexism is more important than addressing racism, and that we ought not discuss racism to leave more room to talk about sexism? At that measure we should set aside all other conversations until one issue is resolved. Perhaps Congress should pass laws only related to foreign affairs until all world conflicts are resolved.

      1. Racism and sexism are equally bad, at least from the perspective of social justice. I didn’t pay attention to your bio stating that you are a feminist. Either way, evidence speaks louder. What’s your say? By big changes, I am talking about things that matter or those we can change. In regard to racism, what can you do, in concrete terms, to make changes? Is law not good? Is law enforcement that’s the problem? What can we add to the law to make it more fair? Say, the punishment is 6-10 years of jail time. What makes it 6 years and what makes it 10 years? At the discretion of the jury? Is it possible to provide more guidelines? More details will make it easier to eliminate racism. Is it worth the time? Are too many details too easy to create loop holes? How many man-hours are we to invest in this to perfect the law? If there’s nothing concrete we can do, there’s not much to talk about, lest we become those who simply talk to look good, hypocrites at best.

      2. The third to last paragraph of this post points out very specific concrete changes that would drastically change racial injustice. “Evidence speaks louder,” by what measure? Perhaps YOU should provide ME with evidence of what you’re talking about. Of your many comments, all of them accuse me of not providing evidence while I have seen none from you.
        A judge’s analysis of the facts of the case should determine what is 6 years and what is 10–but as I stated in this post, mandatory minimum sentences require judges to assign punishments of years in prison to nonviolent crimes, and life sentences to people who are convicted with three felonies, regardless of the nature of the crime itself. Finally, the appeal process should allow for open examination of the decision in sentencing, to prove or disprove bias in proportionality, not just guilt or innocence.
        “Is it worth the time?” Did you really ask that? Whose time are you talking about? Prosecutors? Judges? Legislators? What about the time–counted in hundreds of years–of those wrongly or disproportionately prosecuted because of their race? What about the time served by those who pled guilty, despite complete innocence, because they had no legal representation and faced decades in jail if they did not accept a plea bargain? What about the time lost by all those executed by harsh, racially bias judges and prosecutors? I think we owe them our time. If the government spent more of its budget on public defenders than it does on prisons, there would be all the time in the world.
        It is worth however much time it takes, however much energy is necessary, to keep people out of jail who do not need to be there.
        Finally, please refrain from calling me a hypocrite. Writing about an issue IS action. Talking about it IS action, so long as it done with intent to change, not intent for self-preservation. Until you can prove that I act with words alone and no weight or intent behind them, I would prefer to be treated with respect and not have accusations thrown around.

      3. I am not an expert of law, so I prefer not to talk too much about it until I spend the time to study it. The key question is, what grants a judge and jury the liberty to introduce racially biased decisions? There’s room and the room is pretty ample. Otherwise, everyone’s committing an explicit crime in the court of law. The interpretation of the law may be the biggest problem. Now, that’s quite a lot of work to do just to set the guidelines for interpretation.

        A minor tweak is possible by ensuring the existence of the black in the jury whenever a black is to be tried. By granting the jury the power to negotiate, there’s a better chance to balance the final conviction. As to what ratio of representation is sufficient, experiments will tell. Easier said than done. It’s not a good idea to amend the law without thinking through it first. What say you?

      4. It’s also not a good idea to accept the law with complete reverence simply because it was written. Not all laws are just.
        Obviously laws aren’t changed without thinking it through first. That’s why laws change so rarely, and when they do it takes years to see change.

  3. Do you think that the people that are running our country now over time are being replaced by people of the younger generations, that didn’t have the classes divided mostly by race, will decrease or even almost eliminate racism in our criminal justice system that we have today?

    I will agree with you that our criminal justice system does have many flaws in it. However, the mandatory minimums, which I think need some work, shouldn’t go away. I say this because having those allows for a starting point for our criminal justice system to base different crimes with different sentences while making it equal for anyone that has committed those crimes regardless of race. Now I will say that within those mandatory minimums our criminal justice system has yet to draw a distinctive line from the determination of the sentence being based on race to the actual crime committed.

    1. Interesting question, Stephanie. Until we create a means for low-income people to be elected as representatives in our government–no, I don’t think “aging out” will simply eliminate racism. Racism persists in clusters, as our society is deeply segregated (pardon the use of the term) by class and race today. As long as the wealthy elite continue to hold leadership positions in government by a huge majority, there will always be incentives to protect their interests–including not making legislative changes to racial practices. Their interests will be their parents interests, in most cases. Further, in consideration of the implementation of the law, in particular regard to the constitutional amendments, we still see decisions made based on historical context and historical intent. When writing their decisions, supreme court justices cite the intention of the writers of the constitution and what they meant when they wrote it, regardless of what is right or wrong or appropriate in our modern reality. That is largely due to the power of the legislature in creating new laws (or not) that resolve modern problems –so historical discrimination will never be far removed from the legal system unless we create modern precedent in modern cases that change the way we look at and practice the law.
      In regard to mandatory minimums, the minimums are bias in and of themselves. The minimum sentence for crack cocaine (which is cheaper and more prevalent in low-income populations) is sentenced ten times more harshly than the same weight in powder cocaine (more prevalent in high-income populations). By applying a mandatory minimum sentence we are saying “regardless of the circumstances, this non-violent crime is punishable by the same sentence across the board.” How does that protect anyone? It allows for the conviction of people with no prior records, no violent indicators, and very often simple happenstance or desperation, to go to prison for ten years or more! Wouldn’t mandatory MAXIMUM sentences be more just in controlling racial bias (or bias of any kind)? Therefore disallowing too harsh punishments rather than too lenient? Who do we protect by requiring extended sentences? Statistics show that longer incarcerations do not decrease violence, crime rates, or drug use, and that the longer the sentence and harsher the punishment, the more likely the person will re-enter prison again.

      1. You make some good points Amber. I agree with you that in most cases a child’s interest is the same as their parents. I also agree that in our law making decisions are outdated and there needs to be some change in how we construct the laws. They need to be more in line with the Modern world. However, I know that that is a hard thing to do when we are basing it off of a document that is over 200 years old. Maybe going back to the drawing board on our current and future laws are what needs to happen?

        I do see your point about the mandatory minimums being out of scope when it comes to different circumstances. However, these where put into place to give a base, now do I think that some if not most of those mandatory minimums are a far stretch to actually correcting that behavior, yes. There needs to be a serious reconstruction of these mandatory minimums. How our system is saying this protects our citizens is because by saying that everyone gets the minimum by being simply based on the crime allows them to say that they aren’t be discriminatory. Now, I will say that as system we do try hard to look at every circumstance and give sentencing based on that and still give the happy medium of a sentence that fit the actual crime committed. Are they still racially sentencing? Yes. Do they need to have different priorities when sentencing someone for a crime? Yes.

        I agree that there needs to be a happy medium between harsh and lenient punishments. I think that our criminal justice system has taken the sentencing to far and created a worse environment for people that have committed crimes to get back on there feet and not feel like they have to re-commit. With the sentencing laws we have now people that commit crimes regardless if they are first time offenders will re-commit because at least they are getting feed and have a roof over their head. We need a system that is created to help people not re-offend instead of enabling to keep offending.

  4. The biggest problem with our prison system is that it has become a prison industry and the harsher sentencing helps maintain this industry and plays to the hard working folks desire for harsh punishment. Those that the majority fear are the ones that are filling up our prisons.

  5. It’s not that I am afraid of talking about anything, but that I don’t like to go beyond my knowledge to make inappropriate and uninformed criticisms. It’s our human nature to take the easy way out. When it takes a real effort to prove discrimination, it might be easier to turn it down by real success stories. Otherwise, it’s always endless disputes and quarrels to deal with.

    1. First, no one said you are afraid of talking about anything. Second, unless you have an argument or evidence as to why you think my criticisms are uninformed or inappropriate, or that I am going “beyond my knowledge,” please refrain from making baseless accusations. You do not know me and I think this post makes it clear that I have done my research. It seems to me that saying that fighting discrimination would just take too much “real effort,” is the actual “easy way out.” You do not have to read this blog, and no one asked you to discuss race if you do not want to. You came onto this post and decided to comment, no one asked you to discuss anything, let alone anything that you aren’t informed about. If you do not have any arguments to make about the facts in context, personal experiences to share, or any new information to provide, I would prefer that you discontinue being argumentative. There is no need to argue with me, if you don’t have an argument or do not feel informed.

      1. I am sorry that I hit the wrong button. I was replying to JRJ1701. As to why my easy way out may be better, there are a few reasons. Firstly, racism is not an excuse for committing crimes. Secondly, by making your life a success story, you also benefit those of your kind in the eyes of the racists. Why keep on talking about the black being prosecuted unfairly instead of the African Americans who made great success in their lives as good role models to follow? One of the few mistakes the U.S. made is to use the Asians as the role models for the black, introducing their hatred against us for no good reason. I don’t like to talk about this, because this is a mistake that will stay with the previous generation. There’s no reason to prolong the error. It’s better to look up than to look down, because we tend to become those we focus on. It’s simple.

        But, again, I am sorry about hitting the wrong button, as I was replying to JRJ1701 above. Your article is actually pretty good.

      2. Whether your comments were targeted at me or JRJ is irrelevant. I expect you to treat everyone with respect and contribute to the conversation with information rather than accusations.
        Who has used racism as an excuse for committing crimes?
        African Americans being prosecuted unfairly and African Americans being good role models are completely disconnected issues. First, your presumption that if more African Americans were good role models we wouldn’t have African Americans in jail is misled. African Americans are not in jail because they didn’t have good role models any more than any other race. If we promoted the success of the wealthy rather than discussing the issues contributing to poverty, do you think the poor would suddenly be inspired to become rich? Poor people see rich people succeeding every single day. It is not lack of motivation that keeps them poor. African Americans see other African Americans succeeding, and further all of the white people who are also succeeding–that doesn’t change their circumstances or the system that criminalizes them.
        I don’t know what you mean by the US using hatred of Asians as an example for blacks, but if you would like to provide a source or anything for me to read, I would be interested.

      3. Using a different ethnic group as a role model is a mistake that is either stupid or evil at best. It could be be intentional, but proving it can take a good effort. See, it’s not worth the effort if it’s already over.

    2. TWDYN I have a blog in wordpress and I am willing to respond to your comments there. You seem to want to make a point to me and in trying to do so you caused a miscommunication with Amber. You made some pretty big statements that I would like clarified i.e.”Using a different ethnic group as a role model is a mistake that is either stupid or evil at best. It could be be intentional, but proving it can take a good effort. See, it’s not worth the effort if it’s already over.” yet I have no means to get that clarification and here on this thread ain’t the place. I know Amber would appreciate it if we took this elsewhere, so I suggest that you go to my blog “ramblings” and we can continue this discussion there, if not vio con dios.

      1. Request granted. You can check your site for comments now. I wonder what you want to talk about that you cannot say over here at Amber’s site. This is not your church…

      2. I’m pretty sure JRJ’s religious beliefs are irrelevant and so far he hasn’t said anything that would suggest he was making or would make religiously based claims. Again, I will urge you to continue with respect–whether you are here or on his site.

      3. JRJ, you’re welcome to continue your discussion here as long as you’d like. It isn’t the conversation that bothered me, it’s the tone of disrespect aimed at either you or me. But, I would be interested in understanding the dialogue better.

      4. I re-read my reply and found it quite aggressive though it was a joke (who would think that it is a church here anyway, as a question and also as a proof that I was joking?). I apologize and hope you accept. All further communications regarding your questions will be placed at your blog and not here. You can even talk about a socialist America in the 40’s and the 50’s when Americans were paying a tax rate of 90% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History_of_top_rates). There’s no taboo or whatsoever. Are you from Russia by any chance?

  6. Reblogged this on vraigemmerouge and commented:
    This pretty much articulates what I think about racism. It’s funny because I’ve been meaning to post something on the topic of race and/or racism but haven’t found a comfortable way to do that. I will definitely post my own piece regarding the subject in the near future, but for now, let Amber Hughson enlighten you with one of her daily scraps.

  7. Amber, firstly, I must apologize for coming back with an inappropriate digression. JRJ1701 is censoring his board and thus prohibiting freedom of speech. Secondly, JRJ1701, you are welcome to come to my blog for an uncensored conversation. Below are the comments I posted there awaiting his approval.

    1. For me, everything is evidence-based, whether the evidence is verifiable by a third person or not. If God speaks to you, you know it, although you can’t prove it to someone else. There could be other forms of evidence, such as spiritual gifts. For example, if you suddenly speak Hebrew though you have never learned, you know there’s spiritual intervention. There are evil spirits that can do the same, so it’s important to discern. Unfortunately, spiritual encounters are so rare that most people simply have to guess. Some go by intuition while some go by momentum, a strange term indeed but you know what I mean if you’ve been at church for long enough. There’s no conversation but feels. Barclay, a great missionary, admitted to not having any prior experience with God while he was about to pass away. Do they go to hell just because they never seemed to have received the Spirit? Some never heard of Jesus before. Do they go to hell? Well, there’s a way out (John 5:29). The key is still to do what is good, for God is fair. Why share the gospel then? Well, so that there’s a chance to repent, in this life. In any case, Jesus prefers that we make it a personal relationship with Him so that we worry not too much about others in terms of salvation (John 21:22). So, I am not trying to present all possible scenarios anyway. A sense of guilt is good, because you can stay alert at all times. Most people at church struggle like you. It’s just that they don’t want to be seen as unspiritual. The gift of the Spirit is a promise, so you ought to pray for it. In any case, if you are committing to God, as you and everyone should anyway, spend more time on thinking about what the Father cares about. Eternity is long. Isn’t it boring to just have an infinite amount of time without knowing what to do? Why is it that Jesus thinks that eternal life is so good? What for? Why suffer or sacrifice in this life for it as a reward? There must be a purpose, right? I prefer that you have a direct fellowship with God, because if you count on me to give you answers, you are getting the second-hand information. Besides, God doesn’t answer all my questions, either. That’s why disciples gather and exchange their experience and knowledge. You have to actually believe. Otherwise, you are really wasting lots of your time in your life. If you’ve spent decades of your life struggling, searching and seeking, chances are you really care. Do you really believe yet? I don’t know. Mostly, sin is more like a feeling for those who feel bad about themselves, which may have been derived from fear for eternal death. It’s very common. What defines sin anyway? If it’s not any of those mentioned in the Bible, you should be fine. Do you murder? Do you rape? Do you commit adultery? Do you steal or rob? God is not a fault finder. If you want to be perfect like Job, it’s great, but it’s not a requirement.

    2. A day for the Lord is like a thousand years (II Peter 3:8). For God, whenever He decides to rest, He calls it the end of a day, and whenever He decides to work, He calls it the beginning of a day. So, it’s more like Phase I, Phase II, Phase III, and so on in Genesis, as we all learn from project management. We do everything in stages. But, there are still discrepancies between science and Biblical accounts. I am not denying it. Keep this in mind: if God does speak to you, these are all minor details. Evidence matters, no matter how unreproducible it is. It’s between you and God. Otherwise, you will be a liar when you testify. If pretending that you have received makes you guilty, simply wait until it’s real before you testify. After all, God doesn’t want us to fake it.

    3. So, tell me, which word did I use which is not appropriate? Evidence? Feeling? I am a Christian, too. We don’t have to shy away from these words… Amber can be our judge on this one.

    4. First, how do you know he’s censoring his board? Perhaps he was just away from his computer and did not have time to authorize your comments? Or, perhaps he, like me, wondered how the conversation became about his religion or personal beliefs? This post is about race, not religious experience or belief. I have no idea what JRJ believes, or why his (or your) personal beliefs are up for debate. Your comments seem to be preaching religious doctrine rather than making any arguments–which is a perfectly fine conversation to have, I’m just not sure why it’s taking place or how the conversation went in that direction. You don’t seem to have said anything offensive–other than that he might be wasting his time, misunderstanding his god’s message, might have no evidence for his faith, and doesn’t have a direct enough relationship with God. I do find your arguments a bit patronizing, but perhaps JRJ feels differently. JRJ didn’t seem to give the impression that he needed or was looking for guidance, yet you seem to assume that he asked you for some? I see no evidence in his comments that he was looking for clarification in his relationship with his God. Despite having been raised in the church, I am an Atheist. So, why you chose me to judge this conversation I am not certain.

      The one thing that I did find relevant was the idea of “model minority,” the belief that a race group is inherently better than any other in a certain way. It is equally abusive to create an idolized version of a racial group as it is to criminalize one. I’m not sure I’m seeing what you’re trying to say about that, however.

      1. Well, JRJ1701 replied. So, your theory was correct. I just left another reply a few minutes ago, just to see what would happen this time. Model minority is totally stupid. The sociologists behind the propaganda failed to see that it could work better by promoting the role models within the same race, thus eliminating all other variables in the observable context. The consequences were very bad, too. If it’s meant to be some sort of conspiracy to promote division, then it’s even worse.

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